Laminitis and I/R Horses

I attended a seminar on Laminitis at equine affair. Here is a web link on what was covered. It was the best info I have come across as far as when to test for I/R what to feed a horse. It was not just about selling a product Dr. Frank K. Reilly took the time to answer all of our questions. If you email him he will reply and answer any question.

http://www.equinemedsurg.com/faqir.html

Thanks for posting the link. I wanted to go back and read that since I missed the clinic.

Cool, Thanks !
I ordered the supplement.
I have a little trouble with some of the information, but I am willing to be open minded. LOL

Cols,

Let me know how it works out. Of all the material I have read on laminitis his lecture was one of the most informative and up to date. He is big on the natural barefoot trimming.

Well, I have started her on the supplement. I WILL let you know if I see any change. Belle is well right now but I haven't been riding her lately (bad me) so her neck is cresty. So, we'll see if this stuff helps.
I am disappointed wtih the "service" though. NOT the physical service. I got the stuff FAST and they put me on an auto ship, which is kinda good, I guess.
But, I emailed them with questions and never heard back. : (
I was hoping for some advice and never got it.
I still don't know if I am supposed to keep giving her the mineral supplement she is on.

Hey. Have you ever used "Target IR"?
It is a vit/min supplement that is supposedly formulated for grass hay fed horses.
I like the "forms" of the minerals. I'm going to see if I can get it here. (Canada)

Cols,

I'm sorry they have not relied back to you. When the vet gave his presentation he said he would reply to all emails. Who knows it may have ended up as spam.

No I have not used Target I/R. I saw it the other day on The Horse.com.

Fortunately it has turned we don't it. I had test done on Fancy for I/R they were negative. As it turns out all she needed was proper hoof care, diet and exercise. Which she is getting now.

How have you been bye the way?

Hey !
I did eventually get a reply from the doc. ;)
I am on my second jar of the supplement now.
I'm going to give it a "fair" trial.
Belle is doing well. Her recent "set back" was due to my vaccinating her for tetanus. STUPID me. I know better, but gave in to "peer" pressure on it. Never again. >:-(

I'm good. Thanks for asking. I'm having fun with my "new" horse and everything else is just 'status quo'.
You?

Cols; I know what you mean by giving in to peer pressure when it comes to horses. I'm pretty much done with doing that my self.

I'm glad the vet contacted you and I hope the supplement works for Bell. That poor girl needs to catch a break. I'm glad you are having fun with your new horse and things are going status quo.

We recently moved Breeze and Fancy to a new barn where we having riding trails right on the property. I have to say Breeze really loves to climb hills.

Sunday I went riding with the barn owner and a couple other barn members. She showed me another set of trails that were pretty cool. I ended up having to be in front. It took everything I had to keep Breeze from running on top of everyone. Man that horse has some real energy. Of course I love it!

Take care and it's great to hear from you.

Rodger

Peer pressure. Well, I thought I was "done" with that as well. I definitely go my own way when it comes to these horses. They tease me at work and call me the "Horse Hippee". LOL I just had some people saying, "Yeah, but you really don't want tetanus. I've seen it and it is ugly." And, since it doesn't depend on "catching it" from other horses, I 'fell' for it. The same people tell me *I* should be getting a shot as well, but I haven't yet.

Belle is doing well and had a GREAT spring. I think she would have continued to do great if I hadn't vaccinated. The key for her is exercise and I was riding her a LOT this spring. I haven't ridden her in ages, for one reason or another and that is really the worst thing for her.
I have started giving her L-Glutamine for leaky gut, which all of these horses have, and I think it is really helping. In fact, I'm not convinced the the "Norish Digestion" from For the Love of the Horse Chinese herbs, wasn't what really helped her as opposed to the EMS formula. ???
Insanely, enough, I have also changed feed again.
I found a grain and molasses free feed that is only 8% nsc's and it makes my life SO much easier. No more soaking, etc. The other two are on another one that is 12%. Still respectable and also grain and molasses free. We sell that one at my work, but sadly the other one is only at the "competition".
It seems so weird to buy feed from another feed store when you WORK at a feed store. LOL

The new 'barn' sounds cool ! Breeze sounds like my Belle ! If you are not paying attention, she'll climb hills you had NO intention of climbing !!! LOL
She loves to RUN up the hills!
Trails right on the property is awesome. We have lots of trails around us, but we do have to head out on the road first. It is a very rural gravel road, but the drivers are not always as curtious as they should be and are inevitably pulling trailers, etc. We also have big dump trucks with pups pulling clay out of the mine all the time, so those are a little 'intimidating' at 80k/hr !! :O

That's cool that Breeze was so energetic !! She really does sound like Belle. My two riding horses couldn't be more different. Luna is SO laid back that I have to be really "energetic" when I ride her and Belle is always ready to GO !
Belle loves to race, too. She's not picky, either, she'll race anything. Bikes, joggers, and once, even a car pulling a boat trailer up the road. LOL
Something just 'clicks' over in her brain and she is FAST ! Holy cow ! For a goofy little appaloosa, that girl can FLY ! She is so much healthier when I run her, so the fact that she loves it is sure a bonus !
It is really hot here now, so although I could be riding her again, because she's feeling good, it is too hot to ride.
The only way to do it would be to go out at night but then it is SO buggy. You can't win. BUT I'm going to have to suck it up because she is definitely better with exercise. Even if it is just a quick 1/2 hour a day, I really notice the difference.

It's great chatting with you !
Even in this 'public' forum.
I really admire what you've done with/for your horses.
It is so nice to talk to someone who "gets it". ;)
Take Care.

~ Cols

I just had some people saying, "Yeah, but you really don't want tetanus. I've seen it and it is ugly." And, since it doesn't depend on "catching it" from other horses, I 'fell' for it. Was The same people tell me *I* should be getting a shot as well, but I haven't yet.

When I was in collage I had to do a paper on an equine disease and I chose Tetanus. Couple things you need to be aware of.

Tetanus is carried by horses in their intestine so yes you and your horse can get it from other horses. Tetanus is a concern anytime you have a deep puncture and is not so much a concern for superficial wounds but any injury inured near or exposed to horse manure can become an opportunity to contract this disease. So if you get a puncture or deep would or your horse does a Tetanus booster is a very good idea. and keeping the annual shots or at least pulling a titer for the antibodies is a good idea.

The disease process is extremely painful and can lead to death. Definitely not something to play Russian roulette with.

That's pretty much what I was being told, which is why I did the vaccines.
The other two were fine-ish with it. Of course, they still had the generalized inflamation of the laminae, and were sore footed. But, since Belle is 'challenged', it just threw her into a metabolic melt down. I'm definitely not going to risk it again for her in terms of "preventive" vaccine. IF she gets a deep puncture wound, I'll do it because then, yeah, she'll be "at risk".
One thing that 'bothers' me is that the range of how often you should do it seems to be so random. Here, they say you should vaccinate horses annually, but humans every 10 years. In Great Britain, even the most ferverant allopathic vets say equine tetanus should be done every two years. So, which is it?
Sometimes I think vaccines are just an easy money grab for the vets.
Here, they have been vaccinating for West Nile virus for YEARS and it still isn't here yet ! Not only that, but as it comes, it is losing its strength. Neadless to say, I have never vaccinated for WN !
You may have guessed that I allopathic medicine is not my default. ;)

That's why its wiser to pull blood and do a titer to see if the horse has the antibodies.

Any more I am seeing more and more of vets selling unnecessary medications and procedures. It makes me sick to be honest. Once my dogs had their initial puppy shots I have pretty much not taken them back for boosters.

I'm with you !
We have bought vaccine from a drug store and done the dog ourselves but not every year for SURE. She's not around other dogs and we don't have rabies here, so we don't have too much to worrry about. She's always in sight anyway. ;)
My cats don't go outside at ALL so I really don't see much need to vaccinate them. They got their 'kitten' shots and were neutered/spayed and that's about it. We did a booster on one not that long ago, but we bought it at the drug store as well.
I'm not "anti-vet", they have helped me with my horses over the years. I just don't buy in to the whole package. Just like with medical doctors for humans, I mostly use them for diagnostics, because they have all the good equipment. LOL Then, I choose my own treatment. I don't go near a vet for hoofcare stuff. Unless I want x-rays, but then they usually get that wrong anyway.

I'm not "anti-vet", they have helped me with my horses over the years. I just don't buy in to the whole package. Just like with medical doctors for humans, I mostly use them for diagnostics, because they have all the good equipment. LOL Then, I choose my own treatment. I don't go near a vet for hoofcare stuff. Unless I want x-rays, but then they usually get that wrong anyway.

I'm so with you on this one. I to have learned over the years to use my own judgment when it come to doctors. Vet or MD's I have had good luck using alternative methods.

When it comes to hoof care I have not found vet that really understands it. That's why I learned to trim and continue to learn about hoof care. I'm watching Pete Rameys under the horse dvd right now in fact. I bought his dvd that's my horse last week and was so impressed that I ordered under the horse dvd series on Monday and have been watching it sense. Fortunately my wife is big into science and is enjoying learning about hoof care. It won't be long before she fires me and starts trimming Fancy her self. LOL!

It comes in handy having a wife that is an engineer. She looks at things a little different than I do. When we both put our point of views together we usually come up with really ideas.

I found a grain and molasses free feed that is only 8% nsc's and it makes my life SO much easier

What feed are you using? We are using Purina enrich 32.

Our new place is pretty cool. Last night a group came back form a horse show for charity and could not get a horse out of the trailer. The BO's husband was about on his last nerve dealing with the horse. So I asked can I try and the BO and her husband said yes with no hesitation. The horses owner is a little high maintenance and wanted to stay in the trailer but the BO told her to come out and let me get him out. I got the guy out and man he was a nervous wreck. I thought he was going to blow up in the trailer.

It's pretty cool so far no egos at the new place and everyone is accepting of different ideas. The Bo's husband is a farrier but he does not practice any more but I got him talking about hoof care last night and told him about barefoot trimming and he said yeah that is some interesting stuff. I mentioned about the dvds I have ask him he was interested in watching them? So we decided that we would watch them in the winter while enjoying a couple beverages. Personally I think he is relieved to have another guy at the barn. LOL!!!

WOW ! It is so great to meet someone so "like minded" even if it IS only over the internet.
With your wonderful understanding of energy and your wife's analytical mind, you must be horsemanship MASTERS ! What a perfect combination !
Those engineers are scary smart. I'm more like that Barbie they used to make that, when you pulled the string on her back said, "Math is hard". LOL
"I to have learned over the years to use my own judgment when it come to doctors. Vet or MD's I have had good luck using alternative methods."
Exactly, and you know, with all this talk of medical service reform in your country, I think that may be the single most important thing that needs to change. Not just in the US, but in general, people need to take responsibility for their own healthcare and I see VERY little of that. Whether it is going to the doctor for a cold or doing everything doc says without question or continuing to do things that harm the body, people in general just don't seem to think that they are their own primary care givers. If that doesn't change, all the healthcare reform in the world isn't going to matter. In fact, one thing that bothers me about our system is that I cannot choose my "type" of healthcare.

hmm...I'm not sure what happened there. Kept erroring out and couldn't type any more so I just posted that portion..
anyway,
So, I can choose my own doctor but only as long as he or she is an allopath. If I want to see a naturopath, I have to pay. Same with chiro. I don't think that is right at all. If you are going to say you have universal healthcare, people should get to choose the TYPE of healthcare they want to receive.


"What feed are you using? We are using Purina enrich 32"
I don't know if it is since the BSE crisis or if it has always been this way, but we don't seem to get feeds from the US. We can't access all these "name brand" feeds that are always recommended. The "Heiro" guy has a list of recommended feeds, but I can't get any of them. Ours come from local feed mills, mostly.
I have had to make comprimises (such as feeding soy hulls, which I really didn't want to do) because my "perfect feed" doesn't exist but like I say, I am SO much happier with this new "system" in place. At least I know they are getting a full mineral package, etc. man, this page keeps erroring out and it is really IRRITATING ! It's like I run out of space and I can't see what I am typing. It just jumps around like crazy. RRRGH !
That is so awesome that you are continuing to study hoof care. Good for you. I did a LOT fo that for about a year, I guess. I feel confident that I "could" trim my own if I had to. (could being he operative word.) ;)
For now I choose not to and have a WONDERFUL trimmer. BUT I fear she is giving up horses and probably this country for a new career in diving. GREAT for her, but not so great for me since she is a WONDERFUL frinend and the BEST hoof care provider I have ever had bar none.

That is great that you are enjoying the new barn and the the BO's are so open minded. From what I hear, that is QUITE a find !!! How awesome that the guy is willing to look at barefoot hoofcare !

Well, this is getting too annoying to say more. I don't know what's up with this but it is giving me a headache. LOL

Nice to 'chat' with you, though !

Hey Cols my email is rodgerpyle1960@yahoo.com

"What feed are you using? We are using Purina enrich 32"

Yes we are we using enrich 32 now for both horse. That has to be a hassle that you cannot get some of the feeds available in the US. I guess that makes testing more critical in your situation with Bell.

That is so awesome that you are continuing to study hoof care. Good for you

Thank you! I now have a couple customers of my own. I did not plan for that to happen. It just happened.

I fished watching Pete Rameys DVD series Under The Horse last week and before that I watch his DVD series That's my Horse.

I'm trying to accumulate as much information as possible. I got the BO's husband to watch one of the DVD's from Under The Horse on navicular.

He was impressed and wants to watch the whole series. For someone who grew around horses and is a master farrier to want hear more about this says something about character.

I think I can pick up ideas he has as well and incorporate them along with my ideas.

It's funny a couple of the barn members watched the first DVD form Under The Horse and asked me if I would bring back out. They want to see it. Wait until they see the one about laminitis.

That should put a scare into them. Considering about half the horse there half preferial hoof wall loading going on. LOL! Not good for the horses. I ended up with another barn member as customer Sunday.

She asked what was wrong with her horses hooves and why were they cracking. I explained it to her and pulled no punches when I told her her farrier sucks!

She said okay can you help him I said sure. Lots of wall separation going that's for sure. Poor guy! As I trim I explain what I'm seeing and why I'm doing what I do. a couple others were standing around watching a I could see the lights come on.

I'm not there to change there way of thinking but if I'm asked I give honest answers. I think everyone appreciates my honesty.


Who is your hoof care provider> Was it Hoofmechanic tat was on the JL board?

If you are going to say you have universal healthcare, people should get to choose the TYPE of healthcare they want to receive.

I'm with you on that one.

Hey email if you feel like it. It's great hear from you.

Rodger