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    Soaking Time

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    appy_lover
    Mustang

    Number of posts : 156
    Registration date : 2009-02-08

    Soaking Time

    Post  appy_lover on Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:57 pm

    Chris Cox: "There's got to be something in it for the horse." "The greatest reward you can give your horse is to leave him alone. Don't even look at him."

    Dennis Reis: "Horses learn on the release of pressure." "Always rest for longer than you work."

    Clinton Anderson: "Always reward the slightest try"

    John Lyons: "The release must be complete. Drop the rein to the buckle and trust your horse." "Always ask a question that your horse can answer yes to."

    So.....something I have been playing with is the concept that less is more. In other words to literally spend more time doing nothing with my horse instead of drilling. If horses really do learn on the release of pressure, then, I would think the more time spent resting during a training session, the better. So....provided that I did get a yes answer to my question....if I spent one minute getting that "yes", I stop everything, drop the rein/lead, look away, and just stand there with my horse for two minutes. Does this make sense to folks? Thoughts? Its something I have a VERY hard time doing...I always feel I am wasting my time and I need to be "praqcticing". How anal is that LOL!
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    horselovin'gal
    Mustang

    Number of posts : 120
    Registration date : 2009-02-12

    Re: Soaking Time

    Post  horselovin'gal on Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:46 am

    ....totally understand your remarks, and I'm going to try this one too this week.

    2 days ago, ....spent 1 hour with Lacy, mostly grooming and a mini 10 minute lesson, and she looked at me as I took her back, as if you say, "...that's all?!?!?! I'd like more please."

    the anal feeling is that you're going against the grain of society's current laws/rules. We are learning from society that success for human behavior is supposedly in the 'constant -go- mode'. This halt in activity, in itself, is not accepted behavior, in our own minds anymore.

    And yet, you may be onto something much, much bigger here, than just horses.. Sweet!

    Good luck, and ....to be continued... Hi there


    Last edited by horselovin'gal on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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    nmtrainer
    Weanling

    Number of posts : 8
    Registration date : 2009-02-15

    Re: Soaking Time

    Post  nmtrainer on Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:45 am

    This discussion is so totally on cue! I used to belong to 2 local horsey groups. One primarily focused on trail riding and the other was a show group. Now, don't get me wrong, I am a horse-show person and view every ride as a building block to the ultimate reining run or trail pattern, or . . . you get the picture. I can't tell you how many times I have show people comment to me that they constantly "train" their horses in the arena but can't trust themselves out on the trail. Supposedly their horses are so "highly trained" that they can't handle anything but loping along the rail. Now, what fun is that?

    After I've started any horse and have my first few rides down, I go out on a "trail ride". This might just be a few minutes out in the pasture or just riding around in the area between the barn & arena, but it's definately outside of the arena or round pen. Granted, every horse is different, but I've discovered that each one is more willing after I've given them a break from the arena and "exercises". Yes, I'm still practicing all the basic elements that I've been working on (moving hips and shoulders, speed control (usually just walk/trot) and stopping), but just the different environment gives them a break from routine. I used to be of the mindset that EVERYTHING had to be in place and perfect before I'd trust my horse on the trail. Not any more. My horses are willing, responsive and RELAXED because I let them be horses once in a while. Not these "finely tuned" machines that can't think for themselves!

    If we keep picking at our horses, eventually they'll start to ignore us! Say what you mean, mean what you say & be quiet when you get your point across! Sweet!
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    horselovin'gal
    Mustang

    Number of posts : 120
    Registration date : 2009-02-12

    Re: Soaking Time

    Post  horselovin'gal on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:59 am

    SO TRUE....BRAVO!

    I couldn't agree with you more nmtrainer!

    I hear all this stuff all the time, from folks at a nearby barn where I go to play with drill team concepts. I just smile a big smile to myself inside, nod, and let them go on thinking what they're thinking. I know that they need to figure it out for themselves.

    I also know that each day spent with my horse, no matter where, is a learning in and of itself, and I am priviledged to learn right alongside my equine partner.

    Get in, teach, get out, reward. Isn't that how it goes Ivonne??? banana split I love offering the options of 'yes' answers to my horse.

    (I'm using all this stuff on raising my kids now too---man, if I had only started raising the older ones like this too---WOW!(---the older ones are doing fine too tho!))
    ONE DAY AT A TIME. ENJOY THEM, MAKE THE MOST OF THEM gotta dance ...LIFE IS SHORT
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    Ivonne
    Mustang

    Number of posts : 437
    Location : California
    Humor : If God is watching us. The least we can do is be entertaining.
    Registration date : 2009-02-08

    Re: Soaking Time

    Post  Ivonne on Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:51 am

    Soaking time....SO VERY important! Underrated for sure!!!

    For example, this horse I'm working with now, Dusty (Mr. No Manners thread)....I ask and even take a couple more seconds before I up the pressure, do that slow and he responds.....if it's the right answer, then I leave him alone. I don't rub his face, I don't look at him. I just stand there, applying zero pressure. I'm even looking at the ground in front of him. My arms drop to my sides. Give him time to think about what just happened.

    It's allowed him to appreciate being given the chance to think, and I don't get the big dramatic stuff that other people have gotten out of him....loads of rearing and even pulling away and kicking out at the person......

    I've been able to bring out the willingness in him by way of letting him think about things. Then the next time I ask, he responds and he does so a little quicker with more certainty and a good attitude.

    If anyone else is around while I'm working with him, I'll go through the lesson steps with Dusty then let him stand as I talk to the person....thus giving him time to think about it all....to "soak it in"....And I'm able to turn my attention away from him, so he feels no pressure at all from me. Really helps. (not to say that I turn my back to him, I'm aware of where he is and all that, but I'm not touching him, I'm not near enough to him to touch, I "ignore" him for that moment) and it really does help for him to get it faster.

    Slow is fast. mc-hammer
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    Shadowfax
    Mustang

    Number of posts : 287
    Registration date : 2009-02-15

    Re: Soaking Time

    Post  Shadowfax on Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:34 am

    There's got to be something in it for the horse." "The greatest reward you can give your horse is to leave him alone. Don't even look at him."

    Almost...

    Ron Meredith- "The best reward you can give your horse is a release of pressure."

    Horses are herd animals. The last thing they really want is to be alone. But what they do want is to not feel pressure. Now some horses at certain stages ( afraid, insecure) yes I'd go so far as to leave them alone down to not looking at them. But I also notice that as a horse joins up and learns to trust you he has a desire to be with you and in contact. If I turn away and don't look at the horses I work they come to me and ask for contact.

    Releasing pleasure does not mean leaving them alone totally it simply means putting no demands on them. So rather than looking away from them soften your eyes. Rather than initiating contact invite it. Be part of the herd the place they feel comfortable. Just be with them. But and actively in your mind BE with them. Its another energy thing. ;)

    In the herd you only see horses totally ignore one another when there is enforcement going on. At other times you will see if you watch close that they may not be making obvious signals but they still communicate to one another and notice one another's communication. Ceasing all communications can in fact make an unconfident horse feel even more unconfident, outcaste. So that soaking time is actually making the horse think about how he can get back in with the herd leader. While he is not currently feeling threatened or pressured, it is not the most comfortable place you can leave him in.
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    horselovin'gal
    Mustang

    Number of posts : 120
    Registration date : 2009-02-12

    Re: Soaking Time

    Post  horselovin'gal on Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:42 am

    INTERESTING! THX!!! Definitely something to check on here, and observe!

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