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    Nothing could be truer

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    Rodger
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    Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rodger on Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:43 am

    Nothing could be truer! (your is horse is reflection of you) as a student would be.
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    Ivonne
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Ivonne on Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:15 am

    Oh, man! you're not kidding.

    It's also the HARDEST lesson I've found to teach anybody. It's really not something I have found that I can teach....really...it's one of those things that the person must find out for themselves, in that they have to "suddenly" become AWARE....that it's happening, you know?

    Like for example, I'm working with a client who's horse scares him a little. The horse is big, but he's very well trained...but if he feels you are uncertain of yourself, by the way you act around him?....fearful, unsure, ....then he immediately takes charge and pushes you around.

    So...it's really not something I can just tell someone...."hey! your horse is your reflection!"

    But more so...the person sees how the horse is acting toward them....then I take over and then they do start to see the difference.

    THEN they see....that the horse is "reflecting" them and then they start to change.

    It was the same way I found out that my horse was reflecting me. It was kind of a shocker. What? You mean...my horse is acting like this because of me??

    Then I was able to change the negative stuff into a positive. It's quite an eye opener.
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    Rodger
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rodger on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:58 am

    [quote]It's also the HARDEST lesson I've found to teach anybody. It's really not something I have found that I can teach....really...it's one of those things that the person must find out for themselves, in that they have to "suddenly" become AWARE....that it's happening, you know?

    I also believe that is something that you cannot teach. Either a person learns this through experience or they never do. But it does help when someone brings it to the students attention.

    I know a few people who have had horses longer than I have. I'm talking maybe 10 or 20 years longer. I mentioned about the horse being projection of them. They looked at me like was nuts. I just smiled and thought good luck to the horse.

    I figured this when I was training Breeze. It's the same with teaching small children. If I stay calm and become almost a void and ignore the behavior that I don't want and only see what I want things go allot easier.

    I'm trying to get this across to my wife with Fancy. Holy Crap!
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    Ivonne
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Ivonne on Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:42 am

    That's just it....it's something that you can talk about all you want, but until the person sees the difference in the horse's response: one vs the other ....ONLY when they are open-minded enough to see it....that's the real clencher.

    Remember those pictures that were really popular a while back....they were prints filled with different colors and patterns that completely covered the entire print....and you had to stare at them long enough and in a certain way....until you could see the picture within the picture?

    I think it's like that. If you take the time to look for something that you have to REALLY LOOK to find....then you see the horse for what it is: a horse that is reflecting your skills, your attitude, your energy...

    I know a few people who have had horses longer than I have. I'm talking maybe 10 or 20 years longer. I mentioned about the horse being projection of them. They looked at me like was nuts. I just smiled and thought good luck to the horse.

    ;) Yup. It's not the quantity of time, but the quality.
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    Rodger
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rodger on Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:53 am

    [quote]That's just it....it's something that you can talk about all you want, but until the person sees the difference in the horse's response: one vs the other ....ONLY when they are open-minded enough to see it....that's the real clencher.


    I think they need to understand how to feel it more than see it. Kind of like riding how much contact is to much and how much is not enough? It at least it was like that for me. I understand that other people have their own way of understanding this stuff.
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    Ivonne
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Ivonne on Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:25 pm

    You're right, Rodger. It is a feel thing. But do you agree (or not) that you can sort of "show" feel through actions? For example:

    Let's say, insecure/scattered focus vs steady focus = the horse that's jacked up will stay jacked up and go to whacked out easily and fairly quickly if the person is acting/looking/being insecure and second guessing and seeing all kinds of bad images playing in her/his mind....

    But if that same person sees another person handle the same jacked up horse, but the handler is calm and focused on a lesson (be it something as simplistic as asking the horse to disengage the hindquarters) = the insecure person can see the difference = then they can work on developing that feel for themselves because they see that it does work IF the handler changes his/her state of mind/being/energy/focus?

    So, if they change their focus = so will their horse, right? But until the nervous person sees the calmer person act it out....how can you teach feel?

    Hey! I've got a great question for you.....How do you teach feel in your Aikido classes??
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    Rodger
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rodger on Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:36 pm

    [quote]Hey! I've got a great question for you.....How do you teach feel in your Aikido classes??

    I don't! That is something that has to come from with inside the person with repetition. Then some people will never develop a feel for it. I have student who trained with me for years. She just does not understand how to feel.

    I believe some personalities will not develop the feel. But they can develop the skill by using other aspects.

    The student I'm referring too is an analyzer. She needs lots of data to make decisions. I don't I'm at my best when I go with my gut. If I analyze it goes to crap.

    Developing a the subconscious mind takes time and then learning how use and trust it take even more time. Basically its repetition through training. Then when you get to a certain point you just do it with out thinking. Kind of like me when I spar I don't think I just know what to do. I allow my instincts take over. That's where things get dangerous.

    With horses I don't use my conscious mind that often. When get on Breeze I usually shut down the out side and use the inside. That way I'm not looking or thinking of things that can go wrong.

    She is a watcher so she will look for slightest change by sight,hearing or her gut instinct. Some people think she is spooky to me she has a very high of awareness of what is going on she see's the whole picture not just what is in front of her. So when I ride her allow my self to go in the same mind set (like when I spar)I see, hear and fell what is going on around me and before I get there.

    It makes for me great experiences becasue I feel we have a true unity between us. If something spooks her I don't think oh I need to do this. I follow my instincts as I would if I'm sparring. That way things happen in slow motion and I usually just laugh about it. That way she is not feeding off nervous energy. I'm just a void. Then she will feel me when I make a decision.

    Remember you told me in one of my videos that you did not see a connection between Breeze and I? You just saw a guy with his horse.

    That's becasue we were having one of those high energy days so I shut down. I did want to feed off my intensity. I wanted to be a void that day because I was trying to grasp the training techniques. I know if I let my conscious mind get in the way when I'm learning I know it is easy to become frustrated so to avoid frustration I shut it off. I only use my subconscious.

    Now has taken years to develop that ability. To me this one of the highest level in training. The same thing we hope to achieve with our horses.
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    Rodger
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rodger on Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:44 pm

    [quote]You're right, Rodger. It is a feel thing. But do you agree (or not) that you can sort of "show" feel through actions? For example:

    Yes you can show examples. However for the student to get the feel they the need repetition. I think people need more repetitions than horses do. Humans have to much junk in their heads that get in the way.

    They have that what if I? Or what if the horse does this? No just do it then the answers will come to you. One of my Judo instructors would always say the technique will reveal it's self through the movement. Keep moving!

    I want the horse or person to be reactive to me. Not me being reactive to it. The same with an opponent I teach people to use pressure. Apply it and make the person move off of your actions then the will always be one step behind because they are moving off of your actions or movement.

    Same as in the saddle. You always say keep the horse busy right? To me its all about not using the conscious mind.
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    Shadowfax
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Shadowfax on Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:52 am

    This is such a good post.
    It is exactly how I ride as well which is why it is so often hard for me to communicate to people what I am doing or why.

    Telling someone to "expect" a horse to do a thing. Good or bad. It can influence them because of the unconscious body language. But Feel takes that to another level. When riding is instinctive. That is just abut as good as it gets.

    It takes a lot of time and hard work to get to this level of riding. But well worth it.
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    Rocky Red
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    Number of posts : 96
    Age : 57
    Location : Indiana
    Registration date : 2009-02-10

    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rocky Red on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:42 pm

    Shadowfax wrote:
    Telling someone to "expect" a horse to do a thing. Good or bad. It can influence them because of the unconscious body language. But Feel takes that to another level. When riding is instinctive. That is just abut as good as it gets.

    I agree. I tell people to empty their minds and just enjoy the ride. The horse will do the same. If the horse gets distracted I can 'feel' it coming on. Stay calm and happy, get the horses attention back on me, and continue on having a great time. There is no question in my mind that the horse is as I am. I've been on many trail rides where there are always wild and crazy riders and you know what? So are their horses. Then there are the slow, relaxed and lazy riders and you know what? So are their horses. One of the best compliments I ever had was when a friend told me that my horses all had the same temperment as me. (i.e. easy going, relaxed, get-the-job-done) I explained to them that they didn't come that way. They just adapted to my personality. Sweet!
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    Rocky Red
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    Number of posts : 96
    Age : 57
    Location : Indiana
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Rocky Red on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:51 pm

    I want to add to what Shadowfax said about a persons emotions affecting their body language. I used to have a horse that was an awesome trail horse and very smart. He knew his job very well but would not hesitate to take advantage of a timid rider. This guy was truly psychic. Whatever negative feelings you were having, he picked up on immediately. I had a friend who enjoyed riding with me, and at that time this was the only other horse that I could share. She was an ok rider, but had heard me tell enough stories about this horse that she was always "expecting" something to happen -- thus it usually did. I then had another riding buddy want to come ride with me. This was the horse I had for her to ride, but this time I didn't say a word to her about how he "could be". She was a good, confident rider and I knew she could handle herself with pretty much any situation that came up. I didn't give her his history, just said he was an extremely well broke saddle horse, which he was. He was always perfect with her. Never tried a thing, totally relaxed like he was when I rode him. She wasn't expecting anything, therefore, her body was not communicating fear or apprenhension, thus they both enjoyed a nice relaxed ride. I have to add that she was a confident rider, which he respected.
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    Ivonne
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    Number of posts : 437
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    Re: Nothing could be truer

    Post  Ivonne on Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:44 am

    Oh heck yeah. .....for example, talking about folks who grow up with horses, say they've ridden all over the place, then they leave horses for a few years, come back and there's this fear....and the horse picks up on it = trouble. The horse can't get past that until the person gets past it. Big or small, you will see the horse react.
    I think that's cool how you picked up on that through observing your friend and your horses. Sweet!

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